Small faceshovel versus smaller conventional excavator

I have often wondered why faceshovels on smaller machines aren't a thing especially in quarries and the like. The advantages I see are that there's no bench to cut like with a hoe, faster cycle times because bottom of the bucket only just clears the truck bin or crusher bin then opens, just basic time and motion stuff. But the real bigie is when they breakdown access is so much better to facilitate the repairs. Another jobsite I reckon they would be better is working in tunnels and other tight areas. I don't know of any manufacturer that even offers a faceshovel as an option.

Tones said: I have often wondered why faceshovels on smaller machines aren't a thing especially in quarries and the like. The advantages I see are that there's no bench to cut like with a hoe, faster cycle times because bottom of the bucket only just clears the truck bin or crusher bin then opens, just basic time and motion stuff. But the real bigie is when they breakdown access is so much better to facilitate the repairs. Another jobsite I reckon they would be better is working in tunnels and other tight areas. I don't know of any manufacturer that even offers a faceshovel as an option. Click to expand... I don't know. Shovels were here doing there work many decades before excavators. I see functional cable shovels from the 1900 decade. I once marvelled at John Abbott loading trucks from a sand pit with a Bucyrus-Eyrie diesel cable shovel. I imagined no faster way to move the earth. By chance, a close friend of my father owned a played out gravel bank along side a railroad track. Carthusian monastery rented his space, received many car loads of granite. They stockpiled the whole 6 acres with blocks. Bought a new Bucyrus Eyrie machine with crane, dragline, shovel. As a little kid, seeing these men in their bathrobes moving stone weighing ten tons each was fascinating! The bathrobes weren't making sense, the machines were! I think it was 50 years, the County Sherriff bought the well preserved machine. He was retiring young, hoped to dig ponds as a second carreer. Sad story; he died. His wife ignored it a number of years, sold it cheap.

I stopped to pee end of day 30 years ago 50 miles from home. By chance, I discovered a wonderful machine! I later learned it was an Austin Western Badger 3/4 turn cable shovel. Mounted up above a large tracked base was an International Harvestor M tractor. Instead of rear tires it had sprockets. These used chains to power tracks. Pto supplied a series of gearboxes, with winches. It was a magnificent machine! I needed to own it! I never did acquire it, but I know its owner. Neither of us will live to see it work again.

I've turned the bucket around to load out of stockpiles with an excavator when I only needed a couple of loads and didn't want to take the time to build a bench. It's kinda fun and fairly fast except it's hard to see over the sideboards and you have to work it more to get a full scoop. I can see where a real shovel would shine in that situation.

I guess it depends on what you call small but Cat has the 395 FS

Thinking from 30-12 ton machines, give or take.

Ya that is small lol. I doubt the annual sales would even justify the start of research and development of a tiny quarry machine for most OEMs.

• the reach would be very limited -breakout force would be limited -complex linkage and high purchase costs. -limited production and bucket capacity. Would a 12-30 ton machine ever be able to do the work of a “quarry machine” ? Or at least be productive enough to justify having it in that role ?

big ben said: Ya that is small lol. I doubt the annual sales would even justify the start of research and development of a tiny quarry machine for most OEMs.

• the reach would be very limited -breakout force would be limited -complex linkage and high purchase costs. -limited production and bucket capacity. Would a 12-30 ton machine ever be able to do the work of a “quarry machine” ? Or at least be productive enough to justify having it in that role ? Click to expand... But a hoe pulls loose material all up under itself. I've often thought I want an object 10 feet wide, four feet across, 2' tall I could place between the machine & the pile. I use a backhoe, even an excavator with blade is too close to the tracks.

Tones said: Thinking from 30-12 ton machines, give or take. Click to expand... In my extensive wandering around the internet, I've seen a few 25-35 ton excavators converted to shovels. There is a video of 328D shovel digging a deep basement for a commercial building somewhere on youtube, but I can not find it. This one was in a booth at Bauma years ago, that's about all I remember about it.

Truck Shop said: Just turn the picture around. Click to expand... big ben said: Ya that is small lol. I doubt the annual sales would even justify the start of research and development of a tiny quarry machine for most OEMs.

• the reach would be very limited -breakout force would be limited -complex linkage and high purchase costs. -limited production and bucket capacity. Would a 12-30 ton machine ever be able to do the work of a “quarry machine” ? Or at least be productive enough to justify having it in that role ? Click to expand... Not necessarily quarry work but limited access sites along with Hydrema type on-site trucks a faceshovel could be away more efficient than a hoe. The hoe verses wheel loader argument was settled years ago. The hoe halved the cost per cubic yards for the same load times. I kinda figured that a shovel can use a much bigger bucket owing to the shorter radius boom set up therefore more in cost savings if load times improved. I would like to hear from anyone in the mining industry about the difference between them were the same base is used, say a PC1200 for example.

I think an excavator is a much more versatile machine. Just loading trucks the trucks you can spread material out easier if required.

Welder Dave said: I think an excavator is a much more versatile machine. Just loading trucks the trucks you can spread material out easier if required. Click to expand... You've got to think outside the square a little Dave. Quick Hitches change the dynamics heaps, fitting a vertical tree grab and ýou have a landclearing machine is only one other possibly. Probably more things I haven't thought of yet.

Im sure if there was a market they would build them. We run excavators in our quarry. I don't think it's losing any money

Tones said: You've got to think outside the square a little Dave. Quick Hitches change the dynamics heaps, fitting a vertical tree grab and ýou have a landclearing machine is only one other possibly. Probably more things I haven't thought of yet. Click to expand... I've heard of Australia land clearing with two large dozers & a long heavy chain. Aside from that, there can be no one machine better suited than a large excavator. Even a huge tree is no match for a 40 ton excavator. I envision clearing 120 foot tall trees with a dozer. Seems a near certainty, sooner or later gonna land one on the ROPS.

Willie B said: I've heard of Australia land clearing with two large dozers & a long heavy chain. Aside from that, there can be no one machine better suited than a large excavator. Even a huge tree is no match for a 40 ton excavator. I envision clearing 120 foot tall trees with a dozer. Seems a near certainty, sooner or later gonna land one on the ROPS. Click to expand... There's a lot of urban clearing going on here, 10 acre lots being subdivided and done with excavators only on total clear sites. The max size machine required is a 30 tonner with 20-25 tonners being the predominant size. There is still sites that are being select cleared and excavators of 10-15 tons are used,they still can have some big gnarly trees on them that have to be removed. All trees that go through a grinder( wood hog) are cut into small lengths using a shear , well heck there's another job a shovel boom machine can do

IIRC in the Bucyrus Erie book there was something similar.

Around here they use face shovel buckets on 30-40 ton hoes to load grain from open piles into semi trailers. The bucket opens from the bottom using slide gates.

DDoug said: IIRC in the Bucyrus Erie book there was something similar. View attachment 351095 Click to expand... BE made a 60-S prototype 5yd. swing shovel that was apparently very efficient and fast. It was never put in production though likely because it had a very complex and expensive boom arrangement. Here's some info on it from a book published and only available from BE. I had a to pay a ridiculous customs charge to bring the book it into Canada. You couldn't even order it through a book store. Unfortunately it only goes to 1980.

hvy 1ton said: Click to expand... So they have an impressive machine loading trucks. With a Skidsteer feeding it lol.

The one factor I feel is important does not seem to have been mentioned up to now. Face shovels are intended for fast loading of large quantities of any "previously loosened" material, be that by blasting, ripping, or the nature of the material itself (the example above regarding corn is a good one). This limits their usefulness significantly in my opinion, because in general they won't dig in-situ material, at least not efficiently anyway..