Cat 308e2 — Excavators

Hello, My Cat 308e2 CR is experiencing a start, run rough and immediately stop issue. Change both fuel filters and a new fuel pump. Also blew out the fuel lines and its getting plenty fuel. Codes displayed are E875, 590-9, and 2448-9. Google tells me it an electrical issue. So we have been removing and cleaning all electrical connections. Inspecting all wires, put in a new battery and master switch. We even changed the crank position sensor and cam position sensor. The machine only has 2400 hours. Not sure what to do. Serial number is cat0308ehfjx06856. Thank you

All depends if those codes are active or just logged. That determines our troubleshooting path. E875 is low battery voltage. The -9’s are abnormal update rate for the engine ECM and Display Module. You get these when the modules don’t power up (usually due to low battery voltage). I reckon if those codes are active it won’t start at all. Can you see engine RPM in the display while it’s cranking, stumbling etc? Does it look correct?

Stevepala said: Codes displayed are E875, 590-9, and 2448-9. Google tells me it an electrical issue. Click to expand... Well done Google, even though the problem is electronic rather than electrical.......... Stevepala said: My Cat 308e2 CR is experiencing a start, run rough and immediately stop issue. Click to expand... My suspicion is that the engine could be going into derate/shutdown as a result of the communications issues between the ECMs. Let's start with the E875. This Event is for low system voltage and needs to be tackled first. Is it Active at this time.? Does it have a -1, -2, or -3 suffix.? This will indicate the level of severity. I'm sure @Simon C will be able to give you some pointers regarding how to accurately test the system voltage even if the engine doesn't run for long. 590-9 & 2448-9 are both Diagnostic Codes indicating communication failure between the various electronic modules via the CAN Datalink on the machine. See the attachment for the troubleshooting procedure which will be Step 2 after the E875. You're going to need an electrical schematic for the machine. Check your message inbox.

Hello, I'm not seeing an indication of RPM on the display, everything else but that. It did have a dead battery for a week and I started it with a jump pack. It then slowly lost power and has the current issue

On the low electric code it displays a (1) and also a (2)

Stevepala said: Hello, I'm not seeing an indication of RPM on the display, everything else but that. It did have a dead battery for a week and I started it with a jump pack. It then slowly lost power and has the current issue Click to expand... I think you most likely need to address the electrical system voltage before wasting time and energy on the comms Codes. If you take a multimeter and stick one of the probes directly on to the centre of each battery terminal what voltage do you measure.?

​ More info on the E875. E875-1. Activates when the system voltage is less than 8.0v for more than 30 seconds. Deactivates when the system voltage exceeds 9.0v for more than 2 seconds. E875-2. Activates when the system voltage is less than 8.0v for more than 60 seconds. Deactivates when the system voltage exceeds 9.0v for more than 2 seconds. E875-3. Activates when the system voltage is less than 8.0v for more than 120 seconds. Deactivates when the system voltage exceeds 9.0v for more than 2 seconds.

Looked at your schematic, and there is a lot of Battery Positives feeding the Engine computer along with quite a few grounds. Computers will not tolerate low voltage or poor path back to ground. In Post #1 you said you cleaned and inspected a whole lot of connections. That is good, but does not guarantee that the power is making it from A-B. Your machine has 1 battery on the schematics. Does it start and run for XXX number of seconds or no longer starts. Does it start and run longer with a jump pack. How far down does the battery drop while starting. The alternator will kick in within about 5 seconds of starting, how much is the battery receiving of its output while running. Have you checked any of the powers and grounds at the computer while starting and before starting to see if clean power was there. There is also an Engine Power 3 Relay and a Main Engine Relay that will need to be checked. By any chance does your Engine have a tiny In-Line Fuel Filter that could be plugged almost 100% that allows it to start but die before the Alternator kicks in. Some Model have the filter. Nige would know from the parts Book. We are not there and can only ask questions, please explain how you tested any of these things as any error in testing can derail the troubleshooting procedure. By the way, just seen a machine I worked on 2 weeks ago with 1100 hours that a ground cable was pure junk, and friend showed me a picture of faulty Battery Positive Power cable on truck that was completely severed internally that looked beautiful until the skin came off. Need to check a lot of simple things before firing the parts cannon. If you have some questions or are not sure how to test, just ask as I was not born knowing these things either. Simon C

It does have the tiny inline filter, a new one along with a primary fuel filter and fuel was installed last week. The fuel flow was tested and very good. A new battery was installed last week and tested at 12.57 volts. When trying to start battery volts drops to 8 volts, it starts and runs very rough, volts jump back up to 12.57, runs for 3 seconds and dies. A jump pack didn't effect the run time. I will check the relays next and then power to the computers. This is not fun but hopefully will get figured out soon. Thank you for the help so far.

Fuel pump was installed

Stevepala said: It does have the tiny inline filter, a new one along with a primary fuel filter and fuel was installed last week. The fuel flow was tested and very good. A new battery was installed last week and tested at 12.57 volts. When trying to start battery volts drops to 8 volts, it starts and runs very rough, volts jump back up to 12.57, runs for 3 seconds and dies. A jump pack didn't effect the run time. I will check the relays next and then power to the computers. This is not fun but hopefully will get figured out soon. Thank you for the help so far. Click to expand... If the battery drops to 8 volts when starting, you are drawing too many amps from starter, battery is defective, or you have hydraulic load causing extra amps draw. At 70 F temperature outside that battery in 3-5 seconds should never have dropped below 10.0 volts. You should get a quality 1000Amp DC clamp on to see how many amps it uses when dropping to the 8 volts. Instead try another machine boosting with the booster car or truck revved up to 2000 RPM and producing 14 volts, just to see what it does. Not sure how much voltage the jump pack puts out . If it runs longer we will check more on the alternator side of things. Most alternators won't send 14 volts for a few seconds, and between lower volts and maybe some not perfect connections the engine just dies. Like to see a picture of your battery box. Simon C

On the new battery I hooked up jumper cables and the voltage read 14v on the tester and in the cab. Upon starting it dropped to 12v, started and ran for 3 seconds at 14v and died. Im going to start chasing voltage on the power wires to computers

Stevepala said: Im going to start chasing voltage on the power wires to computers Click to expand... Once you have established that you have all powers and grounds present to the ECMs the next step would be to go through the troubleshooting procedure for the lack of comms on the CAN network.

^^^^^^^ as Nige has said and then, While checking all the powers and grounds, check the 3 relays sitting side by side on the schematic, they are just above the battery, ( Relay Glow PWR, Relay Main PWR 2, Relay Engine PWR 3 ). I would pull out and run a 10 amp bulb or 15 amp bulb through them for 5-10 minutes to see if one of them drops out. Guaranteed things will shut down if one of them drops out especially the last 2 after it starts. Simon C

In addition to what everyone else has said, can you help us understand exactly what codes are active/logged and when. Particularly intrested what codes are active with the key switch on, just after the engine has died. Refer to example below. Should be able to have this screen active during your start/run rough/stop ordeal...

The thing is I'd expect to see silly codes logged on a machine that's had it's battery go dead recently. Would love to know desired versus actual fuel pressure and engine RPM readings from both engine speed sensors. She's a common rail fuel system. If it's not communicating with the engine ECM it just wont start. If it's running and it looses communication with the engine ECM, it'll just shut down like you turned the key off. No stumbling involved. If the HPFP has failed, or rail pressure isn't right, or if an engine speed sensor is bad, it'll do exactly what you're describing. Just sayin...

My issue is, it was working fine. I didn't use it for a month, then a dead battery and now the problems. Just doesn't make since. Should I try a new engine speed sensor, while I keep checking wires on it.

Stevepala said: My issue is, it was working fine. I didn't use it for a month, then a dead battery and now the problems. Just doesn't make since. Should I try a new engine speed sensor, while I keep checking wires on it. Click to expand... Depends on how much it costs. I would have to go back and look if it has a cam sensor and crank sensor. If it has both unplug one at a time and try to run it. Those last 2 relays just above the battery on the schematic get there signal from different places . ( RLY Main PWR 2) - Gets its power from Machine Control ECM Pin # 18. ( RLY ENG PWR #3 ) - Gets its power from Fuse Mini ( WKLT DELAY 113-8492 ) and from other legs of a splice. Would be worth going to check if one leg of the fuses is loose. Had that at a place I worked at, they wanted to buy $12000 computer and I consulted the shop foreman to check for clean power to the Eng ECM and they found the fuse loose. Found a Case TV380 Track skid steer that would just drop out in one second that had a loose pin on one relay with only 900 HRS on it. I tightened up about 15 Relay female receiver pins and it has never died since. Worth back probing each one of the relays on start up to see if one is dropping out the signal to control the relay. Make sure you make a list of all the stuff you have tested or you will miss one or start second guessing yourself. Any one of these things can kill it instantly, sometimes with zero fault codes. Simon C

Chrisso said: She's a common rail fuel system. If it's not communicating with the engine ECM it just wont start. If it's running and it looses communication with the engine ECM, it'll just shut down like you turned the key off. No stumbling involved. If the HPFP has failed, or rail pressure isn't right, or if an engine speed sensor is bad, it'll do exactly what you're describing. Click to expand... This got me thinking. I wonder if it is coming to the point of needing diagnostics hooked up to see what the fuel system is doing.?

Nige said: This got me thinking. I wonder if it is coming to the point of needing diagnostics hooked up to see what the fuel system is doing.? Click to expand... Probably not a bad idea. We're flying a bit blind. Steve, does your diesel smell like diesel?