Cat 308e2 — Excavators

I then proceeded to step 2 and did another PSR

I started the machine 13 times and each time it would stall out after a few seconds of rough running. Then I ran a third PSR.

Out of curiosity I pulled the end off the exhaust filter to see if it's plugged. It looked ok on the end, but the other side is the one I would rather see. The PSR are showing no codes after attempting to start 13 times and stalling out. This just doesn't make sense. Question, does this engine have an electric cutoff solenoid or is that turn off function happen at the control of the injectors.

My son has a 308 that a while back started having the same issues and I remember his finding of a shorted wire that was the total cause so I just ask him where he found this and here is what he told me. May or may not help you but his situation was the same so it might be worth giving it a shot since it was a simple repair. Let me know if this does turn out to be something. "Follow the harness from the TPS down the block, and there was a hanger (thin metal about 1/2”x2” long) bolted to the block that stuck out. It was touching the main harness and had rubbed against it. Grounding the wire."

Stevepala said: Question, does this engine have an electric cutoff solenoid or is that turn off function happen at the control of the injectors. Click to expand... No it does not. The ECM simply stops firing the injectors when the key is turned off. Attached is some information describing the operation of the fuel system. Take particular note of the illustration on page 3. There is a spring (arrowed) that is known to fail. Sometimes it creates Codes, sometimes not. If you can access the bottom of the HPFP it may pay you to take a look at that, but do it with the pump installed in the engine because removing/installing it is time consuming and a pain to get right - in other words easy to get wrong. Stevepala said: The PSR are showing no codes after attempting to start 13 times and stalling out. This just doesn't make sense. Click to expand... It does if you consider what has been discussed numerous times up to this point; a restriction/blockage in the low-pressure fuel system. There is still an unresolved question mark over that part as far as I am concerned although I could be mistaken in that.

Stevepala said: So I put the return line back on and cracked an injector line at the head. No flow at all. Click to expand... So I'm guessing you weren't cranking the engine when you cracked the injector line. If that's the case disregard what I said about low rail pressure (again not that I'd recommend doing this on common rail engines). Because... Stevepala said: Today I hooked up the Cat ET. The requested fuel rails pressure and actual pressure was within 20 Click to expand... If it stays this way while cranking, and does so every time, we can rule out the high pressure fuel pump, and the low pressure fuel system in my opinion. Stevepala said: I the looked at the exhaust regen. This was at the max number and a regen was requested. Could thus be the issue. The soot level to high? Could it plug yhe exhaust Click to expand... According to the engine ECM that DPF is not blocked. It almost looks too clean... like someone has recently done a "DPF service reset" in ET clean. We'll get to that. Going back to basics for a minute: Fuel: We have it at the right pressure at the injectors, which is great, but I still haven't seen a definitive answer from one of my earlier questions... Are you sure your fuel is good fuel? I think we're at the point where you need to get a jerry of fresh diesel and hook it up to the suction side of the electric fuel pump. Prime the heck out of it and go again. Air:

• Has anyone checked the turbo to see if it freespins? Or is it jammed and in pieces?
• Given we're in an 8 ton excavator, it shouldn't be too involved to undo the DPF 4 x mounting bolts and the 4 x bolts at the DPF inlet, slide the DPF out an inch or so, leaving all the sensors connected and see if it fires.
• Now you have ET, run an Air Motor Valve test under the "service proceedures". While this is happening, pull the boost hose and visibly check the throttle valve butterfly moves during the test and make sure the butterfly hasn't come loose blocking the air flow. Compression: It runs on ether so you have compression. Wouldn't hurt to pull the valve cover and check valve lash. Failing all that we're in the territory of replacing injectors and ECM's, but my money's still on bad fuel.

Another thing that is puzzling me. Refer to the screen shot in Post #37 back on Page 2. Four Logged Diagnostic Codes appear on that screen, two in the engine ECM and two in the Machine ECM. Yet in the first PSR (Report One) you uploaded only 157-3 appears. Do you have any idea whether or not some of the Codes that appeared on your screen shot were erased before the first PSR was downloaded.? If they were not erased intentionally then it has me scratching my head somewhat as to how they mysteriously disappeared.

I never did see how the Power Relay 2 was tested. It does output with a 8 guage Purple Cable that can handle about 40 -50 Amps. It feeds and runs everything almost. It is situated below the operators seat. A relay like that cannot be tested with some small load. Taken off and tested on a bench. That cable passes through some connectors including Conn#16, feeds the Switched Fuse " ECM Key On" and a whole bunch of other things including Both at the Engine ECM Key On Inputs. Hope all of this was tested as it could hurt to find out after the parts cannon that it was something simple. We are not there and only believe all was tested correctly. Simon C

Stevepala said: Today I hooked up the Cat ET. The requested fuel rails pressure and actual pressure was within 20 View attachment 365175 Click to expand... I was browsing the thread and noticed this cut off screenshot. If you looked at the desired rail pressure, max was 11458 psi, but the actual rail pressure max was 6519 psi. This is a GROSS deviation from the desired. I would record a full test cycle and capture the live data to see when the rail pressure starts to deviate. If the deviation increases more at higher RPM or under load, you should thoroughly check the low side fuel system. Make sure the electric priming pump is running well, install a clear section of tube on the inlet of the HPFP and observe. If those check out, I would immediately separate the HPFP return, rail return, and injection return and measure each return at no load idle. Here is my reasoning: You ran a 13 cycle test that resulted in the engine stalling, but no codes were set. The ECM can detect many things, but a sudden loss of fuel pressure isn't always one of them. Monitors trigger overtime more dependably than suddenly. The "157- 3 Engine Injector Metering Rail #1 Pressure: Voltage Above Normal" code to me reads as either pin fretting of the fuel rail pressure sensor, shorted sensor return, sensor ground loss, or someone disconnecting the sensor while the ECM was powered, the latter over the former considering the code was not set again. Most HPFP failures I have seen before just not running at all give these symptoms, but as Nige is stressing, you can't move on to any high pressure testing until you prove beyond a doubt the low side is completely functional.

It is fresh fuel that I burn in all the other equipment. I did an ohms test on the

Nige said: Another thing that is puzzling me. Refer to the screen shot in Post #37 back on Page 2. Four Logged Diagnostic Codes appear on that screen, two in the engine ECM and two in the Machine ECM. Yet in the first PSR (Report One) you uploaded only 157-3 appears. Do you have any idea whether or not some of the Codes that appeared on your screen shot were erased before the first PSR was downloaded.? If they were not erased intentionally then it has me scratching my head somewhat as to how they mysteriously disappeared. Click to expand... These got erases before the first psr

Stevepala said: It is fresh fuel that I burn in all the other equipment. I did an ohms test on the Click to expand... Since the statement never got finished, what did you OHM test out of curiosity. Simon C

Ohms on the suction control valve.

So I installed a new suction control valve. Started immediately an ran perfect for the first 5 seconds. Then proceeded to stall. Tried starting again. Stalled out again in 3 seconds. Started again, stalled out in seconds. Tried starting again. Same. Stalled out in 2 seconds. No codes showing.

The codes point to a low system voltage event plus CAN/data-link communication failures between the Machine ECM, Engine ECM, and display. This matches the “starts → runs rough → dies quickly” symptom far better than a pure fuel delivery problem (which you have already largely ruled out). 590-9 — Engine Control Module : Abnormal Update Rate (FMI-9). The Machine ECM is not receiving expected messages from the Engine ECM on the data link (CAN/J1939). Classic communication failure. • 2448-9 — Graphical Display Module : Abnormal Update Rate. Same type of data-link failure involving the monitor/display. These two “-9” codes appearing together almost always indicate a problem on the shared CAN/data-link network (wiring, connectors, power/ground to one of the modules, or terminating resistors) rather than the crank/cam sensors you already replaced.

Stevepala said: So I installed a new suction control valve. Started immediately an ran perfect for the first 5 seconds. Then proceeded to stall. Tried starting again. Stalled out again in 3 seconds. Started again, stalled out in seconds. Tried starting again. Same. Stalled out in 2 seconds. No codes showing. Click to expand... I dunno about anyone else but to me that screams look at the fuel supply side all the way from the tank. Better still try running the engine from a jerry can or similar and bypass the entire system.

Nige said: I dunno about anyone else but to me that screams look at the fuel supply side all the way from the tank. Better still try running the engine from a jerry can or similar and bypass the entire system. Click to expand... Jerry can would be good to rule out the tank, as I posted in^^^#31. Testing is cheaper than buying parts. Simon C

I had a 308E2 CR with the same type issue. $11K later to CAT and a new engine ECM ran like a top and back to work to pay for the repair.

I think f311fr1 is a droid, his answer supports my conclusion and f311fr1 sounds like a droids name R2D2 C3P0 etc

ChrisMafera said: I think f311fr1 is a droid, his answer supports my conclusion and f311fr1 sounds like a droids name R2D2 C3P0 etc Click to expand... Unfortunately you are wrong. He's been around here a lot longer than you. All you have to do is check his posting history.