953 vs 963 For Small Company / Mobilization

Shimmy1 said: Like I said, I'm genuinely curious if you guys could explain how and why a 953 or 963 would change my world, or if it's strictly a seat of the pants deal. Click to expand... I'm not familiar with conditions in your area. If you're on soft ground with no bottom and don't have to deal with much rock/shale/chert type dirt a track loader may not work well for you. I started in the northeast US so that's where my track loader experience comes from. We used them for literally everything from clearing acres of 80' + tall trees to digging basements to grading pads and roads. One man and a dump truck could move a 953 onto a 3 acre house site, clear the trees and brush and pile it on one edge, strip topsoil and pile it on the other edge, install a rock construction entrance, and have all but the edges of a 2500-4000 sq/ft basement with 9' walls dug and the spoils piled a minimum of 50' away from the basement by the end of day 1. Day 2 we'd finish cutting fine grade and cleaning corners and move the machine to the next site. If the basement only had 4 corners and one side was a walkout we'd be done in a day. I once dug a 60' x 100' x 10' deep pit inside an existing building, moved the spoils outside and piled them 30' away, and carried in and placed 6" of 3/4" clean in 3.5 days. One man and one machine. We used them to cut literally miles of logging roads in the mountains. Move them onto a 15 acre site on a steep hill covered in trees ranging from 10-80+ feet tall and 6" to 4'+ in diameter and in a week the entire site would be cleared, placed in several piles at the edges, and burned, including raking up all the branches. This was done with the standard bucket, we never had a grapple or 4-1 bucket on the track loaders. If it was a building site the next machines in would be the scrapers. If clearing for a farmer they'd bring a tractor and disk in. I think a large part of the appeal of the track loaders in the northeast and down into GA is because the ground is generally, hard and rocky and has large shale formations that range in hardness from "dig it with your fingernail" to stuff that a D8 with a single shank ripper can hardly penetrate. In these areas the majority of dozers are often non LGP because the wider pads cause increased track chain wear and tend to lose traction quickly on hard surfaces. Excavators are very common nowadays and are slowly taking over the work that the track loaders used to do but unless it's a very small lot there's always 1-3 track loaders on a project. Conditions vary greatly from region to region and in some cases from jobsite to jobsite so what works great for me may be a waste of time for you and vice versa. Where I now live and work we don't see many track loaders. Our conditions seem to be either sticky clay with no rock or rock with no dirt. The trees for the most part are small enough to pull out with a 314 with a thumb, and a CTL and grapple can easily move 4-5 at a time. A track loader here would sit most of the year.

AMBMike said: I think a large part of the appeal of the track loaders in the northeast and down into GA is because the ground is generally, hard and rocky and has large shale formations that range in hardness from "dig it with your fingernail" to stuff that a D8 with a single shank ripper can hardly penetrate. Click to expand... Slide that area farther west into AL and TN. At one time my Cat PSR said he knew of over 200 track loaders running in the county I live in. That wasn't counting the hobby farm machines. However my track loader has spent the last 6 years at our inert fill dump doing push off duty. Most of our commercial projects now involve second or third land use meaning the new building is the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th building on the property. Buildings and site improvements to remove and usually very little earth work. For these jobs the 60K hoes really shine for the demo and storm sewer with the GPS D3 easily handling all the grade work. CTL's and mini's do the clean up. Still love my 953 and will invest in a hefty repair in the not so distant future.

AMBMike said: I'm not familiar with conditions in your area. If you're on soft ground with no bottom and don't have to deal with much rock/shale/chert type dirt a track loader may not work well for you. I started in the northeast US so that's where my track loader experience comes from. We used them for literally everything from clearing acres of 80' + tall trees to digging basements to grading pads and roads. One man and a dump truck could move a 953 onto a 3 acre house site, clear the trees and brush and pile it on one edge, strip topsoil and pile it on the other edge, install a rock construction entrance, and have all but the edges of a 2500-4000 sq/ft basement with 9' walls dug and the spoils piled a minimum of 50' away from the basement by the end of day 1. Day 2 we'd finish cutting fine grade and cleaning corners and move the machine to the next site. If the basement only had 4 corners and one side was a walkout we'd be done in a day. I once dug a 60' x 100' x 10' deep pit inside an existing building, moved the spoils outside and piled them 30' away, and carried in and placed 6" of 3/4" clean in 3.5 days. One man and one machine. We used them to cut literally miles of logging roads in the mountains. Move them onto a 15 acre site on a steep hill covered in trees ranging from 10-80+ feet tall and 6" to 4'+ in diameter and in a week the entire site would be cleared, placed in several piles at the edges, and burned, including raking up all the branches. This was done with the standard bucket, we never had a grapple or 4-1 bucket on the track loaders. If it was a building site the next machines in would be the scrapers. If clearing for a farmer they'd bring a tractor and disk in. I think a large part of the appeal of the track loaders in the northeast and down into GA is because the ground is generally, hard and rocky and has large shale formations that range in hardness from "dig it with your fingernail" to stuff that a D8 with a single shank ripper can hardly penetrate. In these areas the majority of dozers are often non LGP because the wider pads cause increased track chain wear and tend to lose traction quickly on hard surfaces. Excavators are very common nowadays and are slowly taking over the work that the track loaders used to do but unless it's a very small lot there's always 1-3 track loaders on a project. Conditions vary greatly from region to region and in some cases from jobsite to jobsite so what works great for me may be a waste of time for you and vice versa. Where I now live and work we don't see many track loaders. Our conditions seem to be either sticky clay with no rock or rock with no dirt. The trees for the most part are small enough to pull out with a 314 with a thumb, and a CTL and grapple can easily move 4-5 at a time. A track loader here would sit most of the year. Click to expand... Nice write-up! It is rare to ever see a track loader in action here, so your description really makes one realize the potential of these machines!

Around here, the few decent sized farms that I see on a regular basis, have gone from skid steers to mini-excavators, to smaller dozers, even backhoes. After working through all that, you usually notice, the one certain machine they end up with, is a tracked loader. They will still and always have other machines but the serious work is done with the track loader. They will still have skid steers and backhoes, that are nice dealing with crap and the excavators are good for burying horses and cleaning around stock ponds. The dozers are good for piling topsoil and straightening out fields but then you need to dig out a stock ponds. The track loader will do all of that and more Almost every major farm around here, will have a track loader, sooner or later.

Well i own three of them. I guarantee I can triple the output of the smaller tl12s and such. I have 1 63 21z and 2 20z 53s. They are all amazing machines. I can almost double the 53 work with a 63. I haul them with a triaxle tag that pulls and stops amazingly well. With an old international with Cummins in it. I am the slowest vehicle on the road till i hit highway speed with a 9 speed road ranger. Recently I was just hired to fix someone else's work.

Of course I finished it with a motorgrader.

AMBMike said: I'd also add that a 953 is more than twice the machine a CTL is, even the largest ones and it's almost as nimble. I don't know your skill level but a skilled TRACK LOADER operator should get nearly twice the work done compared to a CTL. (I capitalized track loader because they're a different animal from a dozer or even a CTL when it comes to grading. A skilled dozer operator may not see much difference in productivity between a large CTL and a 953 even if they're very productive on a dozer. It seems to take most guys 3k-4k hours on a track loader to really be productive.) Click to expand... j-dubya said: I personally have always felt the 963 would be the better fit for me, because of the large skid steer I already run (Cat 285 now, formerly Takeuchi TL12v2, both running loader-style buckets). With these machines, I can hang on the heels of a 53 when it comes to knocking down piles, backfilling, grading, etc. They cannot do a basement cut like a 53, but most of the other tasks they can hang not too far behind. So that’s why I feel a 53 might be too close of a performance overlap. Click to expand... Yeah, there is no comparison between a large CTL and a 953, anyone who thinks so it looking at the CTL's with rose colored glasses. Even a small 450/550 D3/D4 sized dozer will outwork a CTL handily when it comes to moving, excavating or spreading any real quantity of dirt. CTLs also really suck at digging stumps and clearing land, the geometry is just wrong for putting a lot of pushing power to the ground, especially with the bucket up high. I think people get the illusion that a lot of work is getting done on a CTL because of how fast they move.

AMBMike said: I'm not familiar with conditions in your area. If you're on soft ground with no bottom and don't have to deal with much rock/shale/chert type dirt a track loader may not work well for you. I started in the northeast US so that's where my track loader experience comes from. We used them for literally everything from clearing acres of 80' + tall trees to digging basements to grading pads and roads. One man and a dump truck could move a 953 onto a 3 acre house site, clear the trees and brush and pile it on one edge, strip topsoil and pile it on the other edge, install a rock construction entrance, and have all but the edges of a 2500-4000 sq/ft basement with 9' walls dug and the spoils piled a minimum of 50' away from the basement by the end of day 1. Day 2 we'd finish cutting fine grade and cleaning corners and move the machine to the next site. If the basement only had 4 corners and one side was a walkout we'd be done in a day. I once dug a 60' x 100' x 10' deep pit inside an existing building, moved the spoils outside and piled them 30' away, and carried in and placed 6" of 3/4" clean in 3.5 days. One man and one machine. We used them to cut literally miles of logging roads in the mountains. Move them onto a 15 acre site on a steep hill covered in trees ranging from 10-80+ feet tall and 6" to 4'+ in diameter and in a week the entire site would be cleared, placed in several piles at the edges, and burned, including raking up all the branches. This was done with the standard bucket, we never had a grapple or 4-1 bucket on the track loaders. If it was a building site the next machines in would be the scrapers. If clearing for a farmer they'd bring a tractor and disk in. I think a large part of the appeal of the track loaders in the northeast and down into GA is because the ground is generally, hard and rocky and has large shale formations that range in hardness from "dig it with your fingernail" to stuff that a D8 with a single shank ripper can hardly penetrate. In these areas the majority of dozers are often non LGP because the wider pads cause increased track chain wear and tend to lose traction quickly on hard surfaces. Excavators are very common nowadays and are slowly taking over the work that the track loaders used to do but unless it's a very small lot there's always 1-3 track loaders on a project. Conditions vary greatly from region to region and in some cases from jobsite to jobsite so what works great for me may be a waste of time for you and vice versa. Where I now live and work we don't see many track loaders. Our conditions seem to be either sticky clay with no rock or rock with no dirt. The trees for the most part are small enough to pull out with a 314 with a thumb, and a CTL and grapple can easily move 4-5 at a time. A track loader here would sit most of the year. Click to expand... I think you were actually using a 963 that was masquerading as a 953......

Georgia Iron said: Well i own three of them. I guarantee I can triple the output of the smaller tl12s and such. I have 1 63 21z and 2 20z 53s. They are all amazing machines. I can almost double the 53 work with a 63. I haul them with a triaxle tag that pulls and stops amazingly well. With an old international with Cummins in it. I am the slowest vehicle on the road till i hit highway speed with a 9 speed road ranger. View attachment 357655 Recently I was just hired to fix someone else's work. Click to expand... Specs of your trailer loaded deck height? And confirm machine height? I seem to recall the older A/B 63’s were a few inches shorter than the C’s and forward.