953 vs 963 For Small Company / Mobilization

Looking for insights and suggestions for a smaller company with owner-operated equipment growing into a track loader. While there’s the typical pros/cons behind the two, I am more interested in the mobilization aspect of a 963 series. I have heard from someone I respect that a 963 can be hauled on a tag trailer if it’s low profile enough. I personally have always felt the 963 would be the better fit for me, because of the large skid steer I already run (Cat 285 now, formerly Takeuchi TL12v2, both running loader-style buckets). With these machines, I can hang on the heels of a 53 when it comes to knocking down piles, backfilling, grading, etc. They cannot do a basement cut like a 53, but most of the other tasks they can hang not too far behind. So that’s why I feel a 53 might be too close of a performance overlap. That said, I would like to verify the mobilization considerations of a 63, as I would want to ensure I could still pull it behind a tag trailer if needed. My work on private property sites much of the time would not be feasible to even get within a half mile or more on a lowboy. At this time, I have to hire out mobilization. Down the road, I could justify owning a tandem dump and 50+ton tag. I’ll never be able to justify a lowboy. Preferring D models for the 53 or 63. I would also be curious to hear about the the pros and cons to the different models. I have a lot of seat time in C models, and love the older B’s. But I value the power jump in the D’s, especially if I go with a 53. As well as the tilting cab that the C’s don’t have, as I know I will be having to get in there to work sooner or later. I appreciate it!

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/new-caterpillar-track-loaders-increase-productivity/8997

963C weighs about 43,000 pounds. I would haul that all over the country on a 25 ton triaxle tag behind a tandem dump. You're going to need at least a 16' dump, an 18' with a big engine would be better.

Thanks for the reply. I know the weight was good, but I forgot to mention the height was what I was concerned with to be legal. Seems like it’s very close, depending on loaded height.

j-dubya said: Thanks for the reply. I know the weight was good, but I forgot to mention the height was what I was concerned with to be legal. Seems like it’s very close, depending on loaded height. Click to expand... I looked up numerous tag trailers, all deck heights were 36" or less. A 963C is 11' tall, in Georgia legal height is 13-6. So, technically a little over, but if it were me, I'd just load it and go, as long as you don't have scales to go through daily.

Are there any bridges or overpasses you might have to go under? Generally I think if your under 14' you should be OK. Not sure if you can get an over height permit if you're just over the legal height.

Welder Dave said: Are there any bridges or overpasses you might have to go under? Generally I think if your under 14' you should be OK. Not sure if you can get an over height permit if you're just over the legal height. Click to expand... There’s bridges all around. 13’6” is our limit here, and I’d be trying to avoid permits for this equipment piece. Ideally I’d be carrying a 63 around like most graders carry their 53. Just trying to see if it’s legally possible, and what the recipe is for the trailer. I’ve heard a few different people say it happened all the time, but the math doesn’t check out from what Ive seen so far. I haven’t been able to find this “low profile” tag trailer that apparently was the key…

Trail King has had the LP tag trailers for a while, standard and tilt. 33” loaded deck height.

I found a couple of tags that were 32" high, that would prob be the limit to stay at or under 13-6.

Which ones are those? Everything I have seen for tags, as well as consulting AI, before even posting, is everything seems to have a loaded height of 33” or greater. Just wondering if anyone here has had actual experience pulling a 63 on a tag legally, and what their recipe was for doing so. Shimmy1 said: I found a couple of tags that were 32" high, that would prob be the limit to stay at or under 13-6. Click to expand...

How often would you have to move the machine?

j-dubya said: Which ones are those? Everything I have seen for tags, as well as consulting AI, before even posting, is everything seems to have a loaded height of 33” or greater. Just wondering if anyone here has had actual experience pulling a 63 on a tag legally, and what their recipe was for doing so. Click to expand... Here's one that's 32 3/4". https://talbertmfg.com/product/ac3-25-tag-a-long/ I know I found one that was 32", but it was late.

A 963D weighs just over 45000 lbs if I remember correctly. It's a larger load than I like on a tag along trailer but it could probably be done. If you're moving it frequently or making moves of any distance you'll be much happier with a semi tractor and RGN in my opinion. As far as which machine is best? That can be subjective. I personally wouldn't want a C series. Cat released software updates that helped them and the C series 2 was an improvement but they're still not comparable to a D series machine in any way, whether it's reliability, productivity, operator comfort, sight lines... At one employer we had a 963C and a 953D working side by side for 2 months and the 53D out worked the 63C every day. The 63D is nearly as nimble as a 53D and is even better for productivity but they are thirsty. I'd also add that a 953 is more than twice the machine a CTL is, even the largest ones and it's almost as nimble. I don't know your skill level but a skilled TRACK LOADER operator should get nearly twice the work done compared to a CTL. (I capitalized track loader because they're a different animal from a dozer or even a CTL when it comes to grading. A skilled dozer operator may not see much difference in productivity between a large CTL and a 953 even if they're very productive on a dozer. It seems to take most guys 3k-4k hours on a track loader to really be productive.)

AMBMike said: I don't know your skill level but a skilled TRACK LOADER operator should get nearly twice the work done compared to a CTL. Click to expand... X2 - without a doubt.

Local company has a custom built Trail-Eze hydraulic tail trailer with a drop center specifically to deal with the extra height of 963s. Need a 33" deck height to get under 14' with a 963C. No way you're getting under 13'6 with anything besides a lowboy. e: I missed you were looking at Ds. They are significantly shorter, but I'm still not sure 13'6" is doable with a tag.

AMBMike said: I'd also add that a 953 is more than twice the machine a CTL is, even the largest ones and it's almost as nimble. I don't know your skill level but a skilled TRACK LOADER operator should get nearly twice the work done compared to a CTL. (I capitalized track loader because they're a different animal from a dozer or even a CTL when it comes to grading. A skilled dozer operator may not see much difference in productivity between a large CTL and a 953 even if they're very productive on a dozer. It seems to take most guys 3k-4k hours on a track loader to really be productive.) Click to expand... As a guy that has never ran a track loader, but can run circles around all but the very best CTL operator's, I'm genuinely curious to how you gain so much productivity. I have a guy that works for me that grew up in Indiana and Missouri, and spent considerabe time in track loaders. I ask him all the time if we are leaving anything on the table, not having a track loader. The only thing he believes we would gain productivity is tree work, and that would also require a $25k grapple to go with. We load trucks with a loader, or if it's bank run, the excavator. We strip with a scraper, or if ground is too weak to allow it, a 6N LGP. Dig basements with an excavator, usually loading the dirt into trucks. If stockpiled close, the dozer keeps the dirt away just fine. When digging burn holes for trees, we have two hoes on site, we can strip the topsoil, everything including all the blacktop where we pile the spoil, and dig a 15' by 60' by 12-15' deep in about 2 hours. When backfilling, I can have all the clay, and enough of the topsoil to where the 6 just had to clean up in about 1.5 hours. The other problem is a lot of time the subsoil is wet enough the LGP is needed to tidy up, a track loader would never carry. Like I said, I'm genuinely curious if you guys could explain how and why a 953 or 963 would change my world, or if it's strictly a seat of the pants deal.

Shimmy1 said: Like I said, I'm genuinely curious if you guys could explain how and why a 953 or 963 would change my world, or if it's strictly a seat of the pants deal. Click to expand... No clue how it would change your world not knowing the ground conditions up there. However down here with our clay and rock a 953 is a Swiss Army knife of a machine. If I only had one machine to make a living with it would a track loader.

CM1995 said: How often would you have to move the machine? Click to expand... A few times a month, up to even going to do day jobs once I had my own dump truck. That is precisely the reason why I need to verify the ability to legally run a 63. I haven’t seen the math check out on my research, but nothing beats actual experience from those who have done it.

AMBMike said: A 963D weighs just over 45000 lbs if I remember correctly. It's a larger load than I like on a tag along trailer but it could probably be done. If you're moving it frequently or making moves of any distance you'll be much happier with a semi tractor and RGN in my opinion. As far as which machine is best? That can be subjective. I personally wouldn't want a C series. Cat released software updates that helped them and the C series 2 was an improvement but they're still not comparable to a D series machine in any way, whether it's reliability, productivity, operator comfort, sight lines... At one employer we had a 963C and a 953D working side by side for 2 months and the 53D out worked the 63C every day. The 63D is nearly as nimble as a 53D and is even better for productivity but they are thirsty. I'd also add that a 953 is more than twice the machine a CTL is, even the largest ones and it's almost as nimble. I don't know your skill level but a skilled TRACK LOADER operator should get nearly twice the work done compared to a CTL. (I capitalized track loader because they're a different animal from a dozer or even a CTL when it comes to grading. A skilled dozer operator may not see much difference in productivity between a large CTL and a 953 even if they're very productive on a dozer. It seems to take most guys 3k-4k hours on a track loader to really be productive.) Click to expand... That’s the same info I have heard, and why I have been specifically looking at the D models for that power bump. More and more guys say a 53D will do everything a 63C and back will do. If this thread in fact proves the 63 on a tag and staying legal height here in GA is a no go, that is exactly why I’m going after a 53D.

Shimmy1 said: As a guy that has never ran a track loader, but can run circles around all but the very best CTL operator's, I'm genuinely curious to how you gain so much productivity. I have a guy that works for me that grew up in Indiana and Missouri, and spent considerabe time in track loaders. I ask him all the time if we are leaving anything on the table, not having a track loader. The only thing he believes we would gain productivity is tree work, and that would also require a $25k grapple to go with. We load trucks with a loader, or if it's bank run, the excavator. We strip with a scraper, or if ground is too weak to allow it, a 6N LGP. Dig basements with an excavator, usually loading the dirt into trucks. If stockpiled close, the dozer keeps the dirt away just fine. When digging burn holes for trees, we have two hoes on site, we can strip the topsoil, everything including all the blacktop where we pile the spoil, and dig a 15' by 60' by 12-15' deep in about 2 hours. When backfilling, I can have all the clay, and enough of the topsoil to where the 6 just had to clean up in about 1.5 hours. The other problem is a lot of time the subsoil is wet enough the LGP is needed to tidy up, a track loader would never carry. Like I said, I'm genuinely curious if you guys could explain how and why a 953 or 963 would change my world, or if it's strictly a seat of the pants deal. Click to expand... I’ll share how it will absolutely improve my world, as well as bottom line, as a one man show (and prefer to be in an excavator). It even applies if you’re paying multiple guys to be on a site running the dump trucks with the excavators, and/or dozer. You have a system, and the machines, so you’re efficient and you know it works. But look how many different assets, and guys on payroll, it is taking to do it. A track loader and a single operator can manage an entire site - whether basement dig, or stripping/stockpiling - with that one machine. One machine, one engine burning fuel, one hydraulic system. When I am running your traditional - and truly the most efficient with each specific tool doing its specialized purpose, I am having to hop machines. In and out of cabs, climbing up and down, all day long. A track loader teamed with a tandem or off-road truck can move some serious volume, digging out and laying back down, and I’m not having to switch cabs as much, nor keep three engines running and warmed up. Track loaders also do well in the clearing role as well. I just love running them, and like I said, I prefer to be in an excavator performing tasks just like you listed you do. But to do so, I’ve got to have other equipment there to be teamed with that excavator. So long as the distance is within reason, a track loader can do all three machines’ roles. Now if you’re the business owner with all the assets listed, you could add a track loader/operator and now double the basements you’re doing at once… I’ll also add how they are a benefit on a larger site and all the dedicated/specialized tools like excavators and dozers there. Sometimes, the dozer is working and it sure would be nice if you had another one on site…go fire up the track loader. Need to dig out some areas and all the excavators are occupied? Go grab the track loader. Need to tote some gravel or load some stockpiles into the haul trucks, and again the specialized machines are busy or elsewhere? The track loader can fill in nicely. The friend of mine I augment on his larger sites, has all the machines you listed and typically performs the tasks just as you listed with those machines. But his 53 and 63 are always there sitting off to the side, waiting to be needed for something in a pinch. One machine/investment that can serve as a spare for just about all the other machines there. Now factor in running grade control (indicate) on one…lookout!