Cat 275 or Takeuchi TL12V2

Hi all, wondering if anyone has experience with both the new Cat 275/285 ctl and Takeuchi TL12V2 or R2. Use case would be one machine for 20 ac acreage in Hawaii, Hilo area with little to no rocks. Some land forming/leveling, driveway, building site, digging a pond (if it’s not too wet) eventually general loader work and running a mower. The land is mostly cleared, as it was farmed, but has dozed piles of dirt with debris in them and is currently still furrowed from farming and overgrown with Guinea grass. Takeuchi is available on island currently, Cat needs to be shipped or wait a while. Tak appears to be cheaper, still waiting on a shipping quote for the Cat. With the new engines and track system on the Cat are they much better than Tak at this point? Seems they addressed some of the issues with the previous gen and brought the specs like ground clearance closer to Tak. Long term service is a concern, Cat service seems to be more reliable on the island but the machine has a lot of electronics. Are the Tak electrical, hydraulic, and engines dependable aside from the know emissions control issues? Any other experience with the Cat engine in other equipment? I think they’re in small dozers and wheel loaders. Thanks! John

I can't help you with the Taki but we've had a Cat 285 for almost exactly a year. It's currently at 950 hours, 600 of which have been pushing a grader blade. The rest has been heavy loader work, loading trucks and running a Harley rake. The engine, hydraulics, and electronics have so far been trouble free. It holds approximately 28-30 gal of fuel and burns 25 gallons in a 10 hour day. It gets a lot of work done in 10 hours. I modified the 92" bucket so it now holds over 1.5 cu/yds instead of the 1 cu/yd as designed and the machine will not tip even when it's overflowing with wet topsoil. It'll happily load and unload 4,000 lbs of 20' rebar with no risk of tipping. I've lifted 6,000 lbs of 20' rebar as well but the rear end gets pretty light at that point. Things I like:

• I think it has probably the best cab on the market at this time. It's roomy and fairly quiet with great visibility and a comfortable air ride seat that is heated and ventilated. It's also sealed and pressurized. Any dust in the cab came in on my boots.
• The engine and rear hood have been lowered which gives a rear window you can actually use to look behind you although it's almost a moot point with the great camera system. -The updated rear view camera and the addition of side view cameras allow a clear view to the back and to either side of the machine. You can see the rear bumper, which is awesome for working in tight areas, as well as 200' + behind the machine. -The equalizer bar undercarriage gives a better ride than the Taki's rigid undercarriage and is very stable. Much better than the torsion bar undercarriage for loader work. -A wide open engine compartment with easy access to the battery and fuel and oil filters. -Easy access to the fuel fill on the outside of the right loader tower. -The DEF fill is inside the rear door and easily accessible.
• The quick attach had been redesigned so a short cylinder pushes/pulls vertically to unlatch/latch. This seems to work better than the previous horizontal type. Things I dislike: -The DEF tank doesn't accept a full 2.5 gal. container of DEF. Even running it till it threatens to derate, the most I can get in is about 3/4 of the container.
• The aux electric connector is mounted below the aux hydraulic connectors. Seems like a minor thing but a leaking hydraulic connection drips oil over the electric connection. It also means you end up holding the hydraulic lines in one hand while connecting the electric with the other or fighting a tight spot to connect the electric after the hydraulic lines are connected.
• The display in the cab is slow to boot up. It also has an interesting little bug. When any warning or info message displays it resets the camera view to cut off the top 25 percent which limits the rear view to a max of approximately 50-75 feet. 2 quick taps of the button on the joystick resets it. I feel these issues could be resolved with a firmware update.
• The hydraulic filter is under the cab. I believe this is the only maintenance item that requires lifting the cab. Our machine came with twisted loader arms which I have discussed in a thread on this forum. I've also tested other 275/285s with the same issue. Before getting another one of these I would make sure that the arms are true.

Thank you for the info AMBMike. Much appreciated. I had read the twisted loader arm thread earlier, thanks for the heads up.

I've have both. TL12v2 and 285 XE LM TAK is a great machine as is the CAT. I don't have any dislikes with the CAT and can second all the likes mentioned above. I also can agree with the comments that the hydraulic and 14 pin connection area is very tight and can make you consider what order you connect and disconnect the connectors. I also agree that the screen boots up slowly. That has caused me to stop using the security code feature to start the machine. Without the code, you can start the machine before the screen boots. The other solution is to reach in and turn the machine on about a minute before you are ready to get in. The cab on the CAT is very quiet. The swing out door means the loader arms have to be all the way down in order to open it. That can cause concern when people talk about being trapped in the machine, but there are two big read safety levers which you can use to disconnect the front door and get you in an emergency. I feel that makes the argument moot. For those times when you'd like to operate without the door restriction, the door is very easy to remove. Disconnect the wire to the wiper motor and lift the door of the hinge pins. The 285 in particular has the highest dump height and can easily load a dump truck. It's one of the reasons I picked the 285 over the 275. Now for the TAK The TAK roll up door is awesome from the standpoint of being able to get in and out regardless of the position of the loader arms and it allows you to operate the machine with the door open which can be nice for certain operations on nice cool days, especially if you are going to be in and out a lot. However, the door, over time, begins to loose it's seal and the cab will leak. The TAK gets very dirty inside. It also is very noisy. While I can listen to the radio in the CAT, I find I need to wear bluetooth ear muffs to listen to a podcast or music. TAK also has a safety feature that is intended to lock out the quick hitch if you have hydraulic hoses hooked to the coupler block. That same switch also has to be depressed by the couplers to enable continous flow. This is not really a problem UNLESS you decide to use STUCCHI or PARKER screw to connect couplers like people use when running mulchers. Those couplers will interfere with and not engage the switch, which means you will not get continous flow. Again, that is only a problem if you change over to the screw to connect couplers. I do have a tutorial on how to bypass the switch and wire a switch you can control from the cab. You can't just disconnect the switch or jumper it, as that will cause issues with the quick hitch. The 12v2 struggles to load a dump truck and you end up with the lip of the bucket well bellow the side of the truck when dumping. Just not ideal. Ok, this is my single biggest gripe when it comes to TAK. Continous flow (low flow, as high flow is generally only one direction on most attachments) only works in one direction. So, if you have an attachment that runs in two directions like a Harley Rake or some brush cutters that have bi-directional blades, you will not be able to lock in continous flow in one of the directions. That is a PITA, in those particular situations and I'm sure people can think of others. TAK knows this is an issue because they fixed it on the 11R3. I do love driving the TAK, it is snappy at idle, but the downsides I listed above don't make up for that. The CAT idles low and you really need half throttle to wake it up and then it moves fine. Also, because of it's size and comfort, it feels like you are moving slowly, but when looking at GPS on my phone, it's actually faster than the TAK. Ok, this was long so here is my final thought. The TAK is less expensive, but it is the same machine it's been for over six years. The CAT is newer, the engine bay is larger making it easy to work on and overall, I feel a much, much more capable machine. Maybe that won't be true when TAK eventually replaces the 12 series with the rumored 14 series (Japanese are very superstious about the number 13), but is is for now.

Question How can you have little to no rocks on a volcano ? I lived on that island and it's one big rock .

mx727 said: That has caused me to stop using the security code feature to start the machine. . Click to expand... They have a key fob like the new cars, I don't know if the screen has to be fully booted up for it to start the machine but I personally don't like the idea of not having the security enabled, too many thieves out there for me to sleep at night when I leave my machines on site. I think it is $600.00 for (2)

smifwal said: They have a key fob like the new cars, I don't know if the screen has to be fully booted up for it to start the machine but I personally don't like the idea of not having the security enabled, too many thieves out there for me to sleep at night when I leave my machines on site. I think it is $600.00 for (2) Click to expand... Oh, I get it. It's just a PITA waiting for it to boot. I'll have to look into the FOB, I don't have one. It would definitely be nice to remote start and let it cool off on those 95° days.

No remote start, and I am not sure why they haven't made that a option, we use to do snow and it would have been nice to go from warm truck to a warm skid

Thanks for the info mx727. How many hours have you put on those machines, especially the Takeuchi? We hear mixed reports about the Kubota being a mediocre engine in terms of quality, it’s hard to decide what’s hearsay or bias. Thanks!

Catsparky1 said: Question How can you have little to no rocks on a volcano ? I lived on that island and it's one big rock . Click to expand... Most of the island is very rocky, like the little place they (my parents) have now in the Kau district. That was a big reason to look for another piece of land, tired of dealing with rocks and wanted some dirt again. We farm now in South Dakota where we deal with some, but not many, rocks. They used to grow vegetables in a decent pocket of ash in Kau but it’s hard to come by there. What started as a winter getaway a few years ago to go back there a few months in the winter kind of changed into a bigger part of the year so they wanted something that could be turned into another little farm. Bought it earlier this year and trying to develop it from scratch without hiring everything done, which gets extremely expensive, and sometimes the results aren’t satisfactory. Hoping a large ctl can do most of what’s needed, even though it’ll take more time. There is a fairly small strip of land north of Hilo and along the Hamakua coast that has some good layers of ash over the volcanic rock. Even there it’s mixed so it took a while to find something that was pretty clean. Digging a pond it’s likely that it’ll be into some rock and need an excavator, but at least on the top several feet it’s mostly just reddish ash based soil. That varies a lot too, depending on the underlying lava flows, and who knows how much erosion over the years. It’s at about 900’ elevation, by 1,200’ the ash gets very thin. After the sugarcane was gone it was bananas, now the area is sweet potatoes in the good fields. They disk plow then rototill to make beds.

John Wellnitz said: We hear mixed reports about the Kubota being a mediocre engine in terms of quality Click to expand... That's probably why Cat went away from them in the latest line of skid-steers. The problems, when they came, were high $$$$ fixes. Engine ECMs and HP fuel pumps are the first that spring to mind.

Cat 285 owner here, and traded out of a Takeuchi TL12v2 to get into the 285 when it came out. I use the the bigger Norm Engineering buckets on both. The 285 was a step up for me, even though I am a fan of the Takeuchi and just about had it paid off. A few little things, plus running a grade control attachment are the biggest reasons I switched. As has already been stated above, the cab, and the greatly enhanced ability to load trucks are the biggest reasons I switched, with smaller reasons being greater breakout force and a much more enjoyable experience when having to work on the thing when time comes. My Takeuchi was a good machine, but I didn’t like the engine (should have been a Yanmar), the cab would get nasty and long days the dust would give me headaches, door gets harder to raise and lower, the one-way auto level is stupid, and having to work on it and make repairs is light years behind the new Cats. Visibility is gain some/lose some between the machines, but Cat wins. With the cameras, I don’t have to turn around and contort nearly as much as I would in the Takeuchi. At least the Takeuchi sits up above everything (so does the Cat) compared to many other brands siting down in it. DEF capacity was a clear engineering disconnect and oversight. Overall I am happy with the 285, and hope I can run it until it dies after a long life. It was truly a step up, which is what I wanted, albeit not a huge one. If you do just generic skid steer work the increase in price does likely wouldn’t be worth it. That said, my 285 and the purchase experience has left me sour on Cat, and I have to think long and hard about purchasing another new machine from them (this is my third). Getting my machine to the point of where it should have been on day 1 at time of purchase has cost me significant time and money. I too have had the loader arms swapped, notified them of the camera issue when I discovered it in the first couple of days of ownership - still no fix or acknowledgement, multiple leaks that I had to deal with - including both ends of the aux lines not being tightened, coupler issues that were again remedied by my time and money, and a slew of other issues. For what they charge for these machines, I expected much better, as well as I shouldn’t have had to come off the time and money I have to get it to that point. That’s probably for the other thread, if I can ever remember to get around to typing everything out. Knowing why I know now about the price I’d have to pay, i just might still be in the Takeuchi and have a paid off machine. As for Takeuchi, I switched to Cat because while you have an awesome machine, the design is nearly twelve years on the market, you told me there were no plans to change it, and you told me the rumored TL14 was scrapped.

Thanks for the input. Was the arm issue only with the 285 or 275 as well. Sorry if I missed that on an earlier post. Is a base 275 fairly close to TL12v2 in capability? It’s the only one that’s reasonably close to Tak price. (Don’t think we need XE or XPS) I think the “regular “ high flow is close to Tak’s at least on paper. Sounds like the 285 is more capable in every department but is out of budget I think for what it’s needed for. On undercarriage, how much better is the pivoting track frame setup on Cat for ride quality on dirt vs Tak’s rigid one. Wondering if it makes as much difference on softer surfaces. I’ve only driven them briefly on the dealers’ hard bumpy back lots. Also, are the triple flange rollers better at keeping tracks on, or is that not really a problem on Tak anyway? Other than the difference in doors, how’s entry and egress between the two? Anything notable after getting in and out a lot? On dealers, we have a good relationship with our dealer here in SD (Butler) with tractors and combine, but does anyone have experience with Hawthorne? They have big customers with the state and county, not sure how they treat the little fish after the sale. They do seem to do quite a bit of service work, and on other brands, so maybe not an issue. Probably be more how they handle warranty stuff or premature issues. Thanks!

As an other option, I would consider a CASE DL550 Minitour. It is an amazing machine. True small dozer capability. The weight to push serious material, runs a mulcher exceptionally. Mine has only had an one issue which was the fan which they replaced within 24 hours. Certainly worth a look.

KSSS said: As an other option, I would consider a CASE DL550 Minitour. It is an amazing machine. True small dozer capability. The weight to push serious material, runs a mulcher exceptionally. Mine has only had a one issue which was the fan which they replaced within 24 hours. Certainly worth a look. Click to expand... Thanks for the suggestion. We did look into those a little, have a case backhoe and it’s been great. The thing on the island is Allied, who is the case dealer, is also the Takeuchi dealer and they’ve prioritized Tak ctls over Case. They did have a DL 550, not sure if it’s still available, but no rubber track variant. TV620b? The steel tracks would be great for the dirtwork part but a little less so later on for mowing and general loader work. Thanks!