Case 580C Starting Issue

I have a 1980 Case 580C with a starting issue. When I turn on the key, and push the start button, I only get a click. However, if I turn the key on, and manually jump a wire from the positive terminal on the starter, to the solenoid, the starter cranks the engine over as it should. Any suggestions on what the problem is here? I did replace the starter, but that did not solve the problem. Also confirmed both batteries are OK as they crank the engine over just fine when I manually jump a wire from the positive side on the starter, to the solenoid. Thank you in advance for your advice. Thank you

Welcome aboard, just went through that with my 580C, turned out to be the push button wires were all green and crusty and literally came apart in my hand. Replaced it with an off, on, start keyed ignition switch. Another thing to check is the neutral safety switch. Good luck

nova481, thank you for your reply. I will check the wires to and from the start button. I believe neutral safety switch is working correctly as starter will only click when in neutral. If I put in forward or reverse, there is no click. Thank you

nova481 said: Welcome aboard, just went through that with my 580C, turned out to be the push button wires were all green and crusty and literally came apart in my hand. Replaced it with an off, on, start keyed ignition switch. Another thing to check is the neutral safety switch. Good luck Click to expand... I wouldn't replace the push button with a key switch. The push button can handle more current. The starter solenoid for equipment draws more current than an average car starter. Equipment that starts with a key switch use a relay to carry the heavier current. The push buttons do go bad.

oarwhat, thank you for your advice. I will not replace the push button with a key switch. If the push button is bad, I will just replace that. I can verify the push button is bad by removing it, and manually touching the 2 wires together that plug in it?

That or a meter.

gschroeder said: I can verify the push button is bad by removing it, and manually touching the 2 wires together that plug in it? Click to expand... Yes you can. Or leave the push button connected and use a jumper wire on the terminals. I have replaced push button start switches with key-start switches with no problems on Case tractors. The push button only energizes the starter solenoid. The solenoid is simply a heavy duty switch that transfers the high amperage current from the battery to the starter. DO not buy a cheap Chinese grade key start switch. I prefer marine grade switches they are very durable and available with long stems that allow then to fit dashboards that are unusually deep (thick)

That's what I bought a key switch for a boat. It is only rated for 20 amps but seems to be working fine.

Well I removed the starter push button on the dash, and manually jumped the 2 wires. Still only get a click from the solenoid when I jump the 2 wires that plug into the back of the push button. Any other suggestions on what could be wrong here? Like I said earlier, I can manually jump the positive wire on the starter, to the solenoid, and the starter rapidly spins the engine as it should. Thank you in advance for your advice. Thank you

Your starter needs a new solenoid. I prefer a rebuilt starter from NAPA. They are decent rebuilds with a good warranty.

With respect. He says he jumps battery positive to the s terminal and it spins the engine. If true may need to check the capability of the s wire from end to end including any switches and connectors. Load test, voltage drop and visual. Not sure if this schematic applies. Bad new and rebuilt parts are real. Got radiator cap from gmc parts counter that wouldn’t hold pressure.

mks, thank you for your reply. I will check all these wires. Where is the neutral switch on a 1980 Case 580C (power shuttle trans)? Thank you

I did a volt meter test at the start push button on the dash, and at the solenoid, and here is what I found out: Got 12 volts on one side of the start push button (once the key is turned on) Got 10 volts on other side of the start push button when button is pushed Got 7 volts at the solenoid when start button is pushed I also bypassed the start push button by just manually jumping the 2 wires together, but still only got 7 volts at the solenoid. So I believe I verified the problem is not getting enough volts at solenoid. I will try the 2 items below next: 1.) Neutral switch . Where exactly is it located on 580C with power shuttle trans? I can't find it. I will manually jump these 2 wires together to verify it is good, or bad? 2.) Wire from start push button to neutral switch to solenoid. Can I run a temporary wire from start push button directly to solenoid to verify my wires are OK. I apprecaite everyone's help with this. I feel I'm getting close to solving this issue. Thank you in advance for your advice.

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Just to set things straight, your machine is 46 years old. I have rewired a lot of old machines from key switch wiring to alternator circuit stuff and battery cables. Everything that old has compromised wiring from hot to cold too many times. The copper is not bright anymore like when you prepare a pipe for welding. It slowly turns blackish and green. It will not carry the volts or the amps of its former days, neither will the plug ins conduct voltage and current like the former days. Some have repaired the situation by mouning in a new Cole Hersee solenoid down close to the starter with the key switch S- Terminal wiring that is currently powering the starter solenoid now powering the excitation terminal of the new solenoid. The difference is that the new solenoid control circuit only uses 0.5 amps to control battery power from the New Cole Hersee solenoid to the starter Solenoid "S" Termiinal. Of course you will have to bring live battery power ( like a 10 gauge wire ) to the new Cole Hersee Solenoid on one of the large posts along with another large 10 gauge wire on the other new solenoid large post going to the Starter "S" Terminal. If the power gets through from the Neutral start switch to the new Cole Hersee Solenoid small excitation terminal it will start with way less problems. The current former wiring was requiring the key to send like 10-20 amps to the Starter " S " terminal where as with this set up it only needs 0.5 amps to make the unit crank. Have done lots of these kinds of setups, with no more control circuit problems. Simon C

Forgot to mention that all this is assuming your key switch has a little life left in it and the neutral switch can handle 0.5 amps also. Simon C

I added a relay to the starter circuit on my skid steer because apparently it's common for Nippon Denso starters to click and not engage. Maybe it's common on other brands of starters too but it's really annoying! The relay takes a lot less current to operate than going directly from the key switch to the small terminal on the solenoid. I had to pull the starter to clean the solenoid contacts when it started clicking. Since adding the relay it cranks first time at full power every time. It sounds like you have a bad wire or a partially grounding wire to drop the volts from 12 to 7. It could also be too small of wire. People suggested I should use a heavier gauge wire from the key switch to the solenoid. A friend is dealing with a slow turning starter but we're fairly sure it is a solenoid issue. Have a couple more checks to do to confirm it.

I’m having an issue with my 580 SE starting at the moment and I’m thinking it’s a valve that I have to tight. It’s got a hard spot turning over but does turn over fine. If it’s warm, it starts right up, it’s only after it sits awhile and it’s cold. I adjusted the valves this spring, when I put new valve cover gasket’s on and I did it cold but remembered after, I had the block heater on before I did it. Was hoping it would be fine but just did all electrical checks last night when wife was gone, or she would have killed me seeing me out there in my special ed vest. Today she’s at work so now, I get to work. Just can’t take all the happy pills before I do it. Pretty sure it’s.010 on the intake and .020 on the exhaust but will have to look it up, in a bit.

HarleyHappy said: I’m having an issue with my 580 SE starting at the moment and I’m thinking it’s a valve that I have to tight. It’s got a hard spot turning over but does turn over fine. If it’s warm, it starts right up, it’s only after it sits awhile and it’s cold. I adjusted the valves this spring, when I put new valve cover gasket’s on and I did it cold but remembered after, I had the block heater on before I did it. Was hoping it would be fine but just did all electrical checks last night when wife was gone, or she would have killed me seeing me out there in my special ed vest. Today she’s at work so now, I get to work. Just can’t take all the happy pills before I do it. Pretty sure it’s.010 on the intake and .020 on the exhaust but will have to look it up, in a bit. Click to expand... For a valve to affect cranking it would have to be at zero clearance or be so loose on Exhaust that the gases cannot get out. Perfect valve lash is just to ensure that you get complete rise of the lifter when it leaves the base circle of the cam and opens the valves. The valve is going to warm up when running so it will lengthen the valve and close the clearance. Best to check all connections and make sure everything is okay in battery box. Just did my Chev 3500 yesterday, removed the fender skirt to find out there was a bit of corrosion, though light on the starter main cable connection after 11 years. Light buff and all clean and sprayed with Fluid film and don't have to warry about again for 5 more years. Truck has less than 70000 kms on it so good for atleast 9 more years. Being off on valve lash can affect starting in terms of crank time, if the valves are too loose and cannot get enough air in and enough exhaust out. Has it rained a lot lately and maybe some connections were damp. Simon C

While I knew it wasn’t the valves, I had to check as it was the last thing I worked on. They were fine. It turns over and starts fine, especially when it’s been run the day before but I need to do the fuel filters but can’t right now as if I get diesel fuel on my special vest, I'm screwed. It’s just when it’s turning over there seems to be a tight spot that there on one cylinder, every revolution. I chip clipped the shut off and was turning it over but need an extra hand, so I can listen at the engine. I do have a push button set up for jump starting but starting to get into the weeds on what I can and cannot do, in relation to my surgery. It was a month ago but I still cant feel my ass, or feet. lol