Anyone use a "Swede" for grade checking.

I think we used to call those sight levels Pee guns. I had to rough in a rocked up yard for storing heavy equipment one time and used a camera on a tripod to do something similar. I set up at the highest spot and had a rod man with a stick with some tape at various heights. Every low spot I took a picture. Used some ground paint to identify the spots and had a rough idea of how much to cut and fill that rutted up mud hole they called a used equipment yard.

^^ just eyeballing through the swedes, but the sight levels like scrub mentioned are very handy for getting quick elevations especially when bidding a job.

I usualy kept a 4ft level, folding rule, and a sight level with me. Rarely needed anything else.

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When I started doing residential excavation in 1997 all I was given to check grade was an eye level and it's all I really needed. The screen on the back of the rops on those Dresser dozers I ran were 2" grid and I had other reference points on the machine. I was digging 6 crawl spaces a week for one of the big builders we worked for so I got very good with it. Benching in crawlspaces was no big deal with one of those. Also kept a torpedo level and a few different lengths of 2x4 handy to do sidewalk grade off the curb. Worked that way for years before lasers were common and had very few problems. I would still use it but the bubble broke in my good one and I haven't ever replaced it. Don't do much of that anymore and use a laze when I do. I love the idea of the swede and have never seen or heard of one. I also liked Scrubs description of how they did it and I think I would have liked the system he describes very much.

Scrubpuller ; Here where I live we call them eye levels. Most of them are x2 magnification and are a round tube. I have a square one just like you described. I found it in my grandfathers house after he died about fifty years ago.

shaggy650 said: So are you using a sight level? Or are you just lining up sight of the swede and the 2 tapes to see what lines up? Click to expand... Just line up the top of the swede with the tapes. If your trying to eyeball a long ways then you can get out the sight level just for the magnification. You don't want to level it because that would defeat making it sheet drain.

You Scrub Puller said: Yair . . . Gotcha Dozerboy ! I have often wondered did those systems suffer glitches. Cheers. Click to expand... You have no idea! We had my surveyor come out in case I was just screwing up since it's been over a year since I used GPS to layout anything. His was off too. So I spent the day figuring grades off our crap plans while the computer nerds figure out where they screwed up. That's one of the biggest problems with the use of GPS now. Plans are really lacking then it comes to grades. Like the roads on this project. There is just contour line for grades. You have to guesstimate the high and low points based on the % of rise and fall on either side of it.

Finally remembered to take a pic of my swedes... notice the ziptie on the center one, it's just left over from doing a curb offset on a previous layout.

Scrub Puller said: Yair . . . Dunno, I'm not quite with it. We had a system where all operators working close to grade had what we called 'eye levels', little flat sided optical jiggers (I think about 2x) that could be held (or taped) against a flat surface, they were about six inches long and carried in a belt pouch or on the machine. All machines working close to grade had a piece of heavy 2x2 box section welded to the blade or bowl (at a convenient position and height) marked with graduations signifying height above the cutting edge. Cutting channel with scrapers the top mark I think was at twelve feet . . . that is to say the channel was eight feet deep, the bank was four feet high and the finished level was marked on an off-set at the outside toe of the bank. Under more normal circumstances the operator or off-sider could hold the level against the 2x2 and sight over to the blue 'finished level' tape on the offsets which were set at a height to suit the machines . . . not too much bending over. In practice with a few machines working, an off-sider with an eye-level and a lath would indicate height of cut or fill after each machine came through. I remember the eye level, some had a setup where you could grade check batters. They where marked in degrees. Also known as a Abnee (spelling)level Click to expand...

Ronsii said: Finally remembered to take a pic of my swedes... notice the ziptie on the center one, it's just left over from doing a curb offset on a previous layout. View attachment 172154 Click to expand... Yep, those are swedes. We use 3 swedes for setting hubs, this way the hubs line up, and are kinda monkey proof. You have to keep an eye on who is using them and where they are being placed. 3 stands, 2 end targets, say one curb and one hub at a grade break. The third is moved at hub increments between the other 2, and are "naked eye" leveled in between the target swedes, so it is a 2 man operation. This is a dumbed down version of a transit system, and relies on how good the eyes of the person doing the sighting is, but you are generally within 1/4 inch. We set hubs for whole parking lots with grade breaks as well as buildings. It helps if one of the labors is smart, but you can get them started and micro manage at a glance. The advantage is being able to set grade breaks off survey stakes, then sighting them across to the next grade break or feature. There is no math except to offset the heights. I hope this explanation helps for anyone that runs into these little stands.

Hand levels ( eye level) are about the best thing ever you can do anything with them and the battery never dies I still use mine every day when I dig plumbing Never heard of a Swede before but it seems simple enough It still amazes me how much GPS and lasers get screwed up because people can't do math or have the wherewithal to check there set up and God forbid a benchmark is written in decimal feet and not inches people can't even begin to understand that

AzIron said: Hand levels ( eye level) are about the best thing ever you can do anything with them and the battery never dies I still use mine every day when I dig plumbing Never heard of a Swede before but it seems simple enough It still amazes me how much GPS and lasers get screwed up because people can't do math or have the wherewithal to check there set up and God forbid a benchmark is written in decimal feet and not inches people can't even begin to understand that Click to expand... True. However, we aren't talking about a level surface, and math isn't always the answer. Unless you are going to stop and do geometry on the fly for every 10, 15 or 20 feet on a grid across an entire area with only hard "points" at the edges. Now, dont get me wrong, peep levels and lasers are awesome. Combine with a link rod or stick and it does great things with a little know how. This is, for all intensive purposes, a measure once, do an entire area system of sighting grades. Once set, you just move them. I'm sure everyone here can agree, if you tell a labor that a 47 1/4 inch tall stand has to be offset down 8 inches, they will have a hard time doing that. For this reason, they usually dont get engineer sticks, as you never know if they are using inches or 10ths. They also rarely even know what a sight level is, or how to offset across a slope to get a height difference, or set a stake with a measured mark and measure offsets across a grade. Most people will learn this in a surveying class in college, or learn this thru trickle down experiences. On normal civil plans, when you have a scale, they usually give you points at grade breaks. Otherwise it's just an approximate % grade and 2 end points. Across 300 feet, that's a lot of points, and assumes that the end points are correct. Then your math also assumes people can measure super accurate lengths on dirt, and hammer a hub in that exact spot. Then you have the issue of curb grades, existing grades, etc. You can average rough(not exactly flat) existing grades with these also, and set hubs based on those grades just by choosing starting points. Swedes have a sole purpose of never being wrong across short to decently long distances, based on eye. You can do the same thing with a transit, over longer distances, which is a surveyor standard, but labors and most construction workers dont really know how to use those. These are strictly a niche that gets the job done with 2 labors, and it doesn't much matter how sloppy their work is. Offsetting to the side too much when placing a hub can change a slope a little, but in that line, you have infinite points already calculated. Similarly, you can boost the range and accuracy with a peep sight and rod, making a makeshift sighting transit. But I'm getting off topic.

Seriously no one knows what swedes are? I use them every day. Use them to check crowns in roads especially. You use them to check between two grade marks to match grades when you are not working on a level surface. You can also adjust one swede to compensate for sections of base rock, concrete, Asphalt etc. they are the most useful things around. If anyone in Northern CA would like to learn how to use them. My going rate is $100/hr hahaha

InsleyGuy said: I usualy kept a 4ft level, folding rule, and a sight level with me. Rarely needed anything else. Click to expand... Very useful tools. I taught one of our design people (sharp young gal ) to do a full survey to get a DEQ permit for a culvert replacement using them. My boss would have sent out a survey crew for a day and a half. We did it all in about an hour.

here is a quick vid I made to help a friend. Maybe it will shed some light on these mythical beasts.

swedes getting some love today.

You need a good farmer on a blade to come through there and harvest those carrots I see sprouting...

Anyone have a parts list or a diagram on how to fabricate some swedes? Even just the base where lath can be inserted to use as a swede as well. Currently don't have access to a laser and the Trimble gps is wacky with the canopy. I made a make shift swede with wood and a lath but the wind kicks and just blows it right over. Thanks for the help. I don't really wanna spend $300 on kuker ranked swedes

If you're working alone 2 sweds and an Abney Level makes life simple and job accurate.