Off to the races. Getting fully setup to run 3D on my motorgrader.

My new total station, tablet, licensing and supporting items just got dropped off to me. If you are wondering, this equipment is costly. I have been working towards it for 3 years now. When I paid for my initial machine control I went with a 3D system. After the guys had it in there shop for about a month, they had to scale the system back to 2D because there was no where to install the rotation sensor on the turn table safely. They thought it was not possible without major surgery. It was up to me to figure out how to get it centered on the table above the mold board. All that stuff on top is in the way of center and the junk on the bottom moves. Not only does the rotation sensor need to be centered and oriented in the correct direction all those precious cables and connections must be safe from materials damaging them. Most of the time this means building a new blade assembly designed for machine control or doing what most do and not getting it. After much thought i came up with a way to do it. I ended up taking the mold board or blade off and welding in a lower protected housing to carry the sensor and it's supporting wires. This took me about a month to figure out and do then my grader went back to the dealer to make sure the tilt sensor, rotation sensor, and slope sensors worked as they should. We had more issues with the junction box so 1000s more in work and the machine is ready to be used. This left me needing a gun(station), tablet, measuring sticks batteries and all the licensing to use it. Due to tariffs and shipping disruptions almost all machine control parts are back ordered and stuck some where in limbo. It could be 2 months to get a part you need. They have a line of machines waiting on gps right now. My machine can also run gps and laser. I am going to use the 3D for some large scale cement paving work on roads and parking lots. I previously have been doing string line grading the old way on smaller roads and what not without issue. It is just slower. Our soil cement crew is rocking and rolling and the mixing is moving fast, they are behind on timelines. They are laying it down with GPS and I will be cleaning it up with 3D. I have completed 27 2D and sloped pours on this job. I have been on this project since November. Rain, weather and soil issues have made this job, one to remember. I am on call 24hrs a day, 7 days a week. I am heading out to start programming tomorrow for Monday grading and concrete pouring on Monday night. Hopefully Mr Murphy does not show up because a lot is riding on my work right now. Tbc...

Who's 3D system did you go with?

KSSS said: Who's 3D system did you go with? Click to expand... Leica, ICR80, cc200, icon. I used an older version around 4 years ago and got the basics down. This equipment has improved, it seems to track me faster. I know the basics such as, making a project, making control points, making a grade file, and how to use it. The software can do more than I know or probably need. I think you can do property line surveys with it, but I don't know how to do it. Today, I am measuring and staking out my next 2 pours. Friday night they poured right at 2000 yards or 2 pours on one extended night. We are attempting to get something done around this cycle of high winds and rain .... I just ran to the truck, had to get everything up a severe storm just hit. Waiting it out. I am on site a day early to have extra time to set the grade file up. Normally I can do it first thing and move on. But this being new to me, i did not want to fall behind if I have issues.

So much for an easy day. Above you are looking at measurements I have taken along the curb and gutters. Typically you measure your highs and lows and then put in points if you have a flow problem. The elevations are what I am concerned with. That's what controls water flow and concrete depth.

Georgia Iron said: The elevations are what I am concerned with. That's what controls water flow and concrete depth. Click to expand... Yeah that curb line is relatively flat. Is it a spill curb?

CM1995 said: Yeah that curb line is relatively flat. Is it a spill curb? Click to expand... That was the building side measurements. Which was close to flat, it has a little curling of the concrete on the building side. It's drainage is at 1%. Below is the outside spill curb. I set it up with colored contours to help me see the sub grade changes for my break lines. It is a type of topo profile. I can also use a grade checker to mimic water flow. This area is a little too long for my liking on one setup. Pushing 1000' long. Checking drainage below electronically. This was a test grade based on my as built model. Part of my job is checking everything is working together correctly for drainage. Some times the curbs are wrong and sometimes i stake it out with nothing on the outside, maybe if the curb guys are late and then they do curbs to match me. Once you can understand what your measurements mean then you can find the problems. Most common problem is manhole covers too high or low. The curb guys on this job are just as capable as me. They are top notch have not found any problems yet and they use the same tech.

They claim it pays for itself in the time it saves A good base and rover here are in the $35000 range, and i know some set ups on a grader can be close to 100

cuttin edge said: They claim it pays for itself in the time it saves A good base and rover here are in the $35000 range, and i know some set ups on a grader can be close to 100 Click to expand... This system with taxs and licensing was 55k. My old employer had the full software package. I did not realize that they were nickle and diming the software now and that they had changed what capabilities it does. They sold me a basic software. The different features they now call apps so they are getting some more money out of me for a more expanded version. The grade checkers are pretty tuff on me. They run strings line and tapes and check my work and every pour is looked at based on yields. Lots of little things can happen that make my job harder. Sometimes the base material will swell in the heat and I wonder why I am cutting an area after it was already cut to grade. A lot of times they don't check it till the end of the day if I have a problem it can make a late evening. I have gotten pretty good at my job and can feel what the tractor is doing so I rarely dont know what is happening. Mostly it is super hard material that pushes my blade up and you think you are cutting to grade but your not. One pour recently went over 100 yards and they were looking at me. That much over can cause them to find someone else. I knew it was not me. I checked the slab after the pour and it was off a 1/2" up in places. The screed guy was not dialed in good. The nice thing about having a robot is I can be just as accurate as any surveyor. I could set pins and stake lines and so forth and practically lay out the whole job. I don't take it on because I don't want the liability nor woukd i get paid for it. But I can double check so and so and see when the 3 grade pins are out a 1/2" and know what is happening as the work is moving foward. Control points get ripped out and driven over a lot and sometimes I am waiting on a surveyor for a day or 2. Now I can keep working and "know" that I am good with my work. It gives me another system of checks and I don't have to worry so much. Most all dirt guys are running GPS. It sometimes does not work well near walls and inside buildings. I help fix those bad places and problem areas. Sometime I cut grade and they dial in on my grade and follow it up with a dozer. The best think a station does is you can see what is happening with water and water is the job site biggest issue.

cuttin edge said: They claim it pays for itself in the time it saves A good base and rover here are in the $35000 range, and i know some set ups on a grader can be close to 100 Click to expand... The tech pays for itself. It was a little over $100K for our base station, rover and full auto on a D3 with the licenses and such. That was in '21 and the investment is now in the pay back stage. Georgia Iron said: Control points get ripped out and driven over a lot and sometimes I am waiting on a surveyor for a day or 2. Now I can keep working and "know" that I am good with my work. It gives me another system of checks and I don't have to worry so much. Most all dirt guys are running GPS. It sometimes does not work well near walls and inside buildings. I help fix those bad places and problem areas. Sometime I cut grade and they dial in on my grade and follow it up with a dozer. Click to expand... Yeah CP's get tore out all the time. Usually what we'll do is once our grading model is localized we'll set a base station point in our lay down area that is protected the best it can be. Total station is by far more accurate however it relies on line of site which makes it difficult on grading a large site or sites with obstructions. Sometimes GPS accuracy depends on the time of day and how many satellites you have when working close to buildings and such. All in all it's a game changer for us cutting and filling to +/- .10'. For what you are doing a total station is the only way to go to achieve those tolerances.

Georgia Iron said: This system with taxs and licensing was 55k. My old employer had the full software package. I did not realize that they were nickle and diming the software now and that they had changed what capabilities it does. They sold me a basic software. The different features they now call apps so they are getting some more money out of me for a more expanded version. The grade checkers are pretty tuff on me. They run strings line and tapes and check my work and every pour is looked at based on yields. Lots of little things can happen that make my job harder. Sometimes the base material will swell in the heat and I wonder why I am cutting an area after it was already cut to grade. A lot of times they don't check it till the end of the day if I have a problem it can make a late evening. I have gotten pretty good at my job and can feel what the tractor is doing so I rarely dont know what is happening. Mostly it is super hard material that pushes my blade up and you think you are cutting to grade but your not. One pour recently went over 100 yards and they were looking at me. That much over can cause them to find someone else. I knew it was not me. I checked the slab after the pour and it was off a 1/2" up in places. The screed guy was not dialed in good. The nice thing about having a robot is I can be just as accurate as any surveyor. I could set pins and stake lines and so forth and practically lay out the whole job. I don't take it on because I don't want the liability nor woukd i get paid for it. But I can double check so and so and see when the 3 grade pins are out a 1/2" and know what is happening as the work is moving foward. Control points get ripped out and driven over a lot and sometimes I am waiting on a surveyor for a day or 2. Now I can keep working and "know" that I am good with my work. It gives me another system of checks and I don't have to worry so much. Most all dirt guys are running GPS. It sometimes does not work well near walls and inside buildings. I help fix those bad places and problem areas. Sometime I cut grade and they dial in on my grade and follow it up with a dozer. The best think a station does is you can see what is happening with water and water is the job site biggest issue. Click to expand... Do you run stinger bits on the grader? I find that they really help with fine grading. Most of the time I'll lay down the material and fine grade it at the end. Most of the time they hire enough trucks, that by the time the last truck dumps, you get about 20 to 30 min before the first truck is back. Between water and traffic, it is packed pretty hard. Stingers make cutting high spots way easier.

cuttin edge said: Do you run stinger bits on the grader? I find that they really help with fine grading. Most of the time I'll lay down the material and fine grade it at the end. Most of the time they hire enough trucks, that by the time the last truck dumps, you get about 20 to 30 min before the first truck is back. Between water and traffic, it is packed pretty hard. Stingers make cutting high spots way easier. Click to expand... I am not sure what you mean by stinger bits. I use serrated cutting edges.

CM1995 said: The tech pays for itself. It was a little over $100K for our base station, rover and full auto on a D3 with the licenses and such. That was in '21 and the investment is now in the pay back stage. Yeah CP's get tore out all the time. Usually what we'll do is once our grading model is localized we'll set a base station point in our lay down area that is protected the best it can be. Total station is by far more accurate however it relies on line of site which makes it difficult on grading a large site or sites with obstructions. Sometimes GPS accuracy depends on the time of day and how many satellites you have when working close to buildings and such. All in all it's a game changer for us cutting and filling to +/- .10'. For what you are doing a total station is the only way to go to achieve those tolerances. Click to expand... Everything you said is true. This week went pretty well. I graded 3 new pours and had to repair a surface. The tolerances and yields were spot on. Cut and fill numbers were good. I did not use any break lines across the pours. I was not sure how it would turn out until I shot the actual finished project as in dirt. It did amazing. We had 1" of rain that morning. 4 pumps going .

Georgia Iron said: I am not sure what you mean by stinger bits. I use serrated cutting edges. Click to expand... Like the changeable teeth on a milling machine

Georgia Iron said: Everything you said is true. This week went pretty well. I graded 3 new pours and had to repair a surface. The tolerances and yields were spot on. Cut and fill numbers were good. I did not use any break lines across the pours. I was not sure how it would turn out until I shot the actual finished project as in dirt. It did amazing. We had 1" of rain that morning. 4 pumps going . View attachment 342555 View attachment 342554 Click to expand... Looks great!

CM1995 said: Looks great! Click to expand... Is there not a thing they have that works with your phone now for smaller jobs. Can't remember what they call it

cuttin edge said: Is there not a thing they have that works with your phone now for smaller jobs. Can't remember what they call it Click to expand... I think there is an Earthworks GO that Trimble has but not sure how it works.

We have been using a laser on our 140 for a few months now and it is accurate within a quarter inch once you learn how to compensate for the wear in the mold board guides Not quit ready to jump to 3d machine control but its on the list for now the laser works great

AzIron said: We have been using a laser on our 140 for a few months now and it is accurate within a quarter inch once you learn how to compensate for the wear in the mold board guides Not quit ready to jump to 3d machine control but its on the list for now the laser works great Click to expand... How far can you go away from your laser before laser scatter becomes an issue?

CM1995 said: I think there is an Earthworks GO that Trimble has but not sure how it works. Click to expand... Earthworks GO it is a good system and is cheaper than the 2D or 3D systems but you can't expand on it like you can with the 2D/3D for example you get 2D later you could add a laser catcher to get 3D you have to add some wiring and the receivers or to use with a total station you would add the prizm and a "all code" to communicate. So if you are planning on going further with technology you would have to sell the GO and start fresh

Oxbow said: How far can you go away from your laser before laser scatter becomes an issue? Click to expand... Depends on the quality of the laser for one After 300 feet the margin opens up to 3/8ths and inch at 400 feet from the laser you vary a half inch that's way outside our tolerance for a floor so we stay at 300 or less If we are cutting sub and not finish 600 feet is fine but this time of year afternoons get really warm and the heat waves keep you closer to 400