Cutting edge bolts

Welder Dave said: The bolt on edge adds some strength but is primarily so it's easy to replace/flip when it gets worn out. Replacing the welded on bucket lip can be a big job for some. Click to expand... Agree. Also it's just not worth the time or money to cut the old edge off and weld a new one on. That's why our 2 primary CTL buckets have BOCE's and welded shanks for the teeth. Took a Cat smooth bucket with a BOCE then shaped mini-ex sized shanks to fit the profile. No more scalloping between the shanks like we had for years running other buckets. The benefit of using the mini-ex shanks on the CTL buckets is all our teeth are the same. The bolts aren't an issue in this situation.

Welder Dave said: Cut them off flush and run a donut weld around the bolts. Would need a couple clamps and a piece if flat bar to hold the bolts up and clamp the edge tight to the bucket. Click to expand... I can't believe I hadn't seen this madness before now. There is no way this would work for longer than a day or two on anything bigger than a 1-3 tonner. Without any sort of stretch on the bolts, the first sign of stress and they will stretch on their own, then the edge is loose. If you can't run a bolt-on edge, weld an edge on and be done.

CM1995 said: Agree. Also it's just not worth the time or money to cut the old edge off and weld a new one on. That's why our 2 primary CTL buckets have BOCE's and welded shanks for the teeth. Took a Cat smooth bucket with a BOCE then shaped mini-ex sized shanks to fit the profile. No more scalloping between the shanks like we had for years running other buckets. The benefit of using the mini-ex shanks on the CTL buckets is all our teeth are the same. The bolts aren't an issue in this situation. Click to expand... Yes, really depends on your application. I would agree in most cases bolt on edges are better. I am not looking forward to replacing the edge on our 50d (feed machine). The Swedish half arrow does seem to wear incredibly well though. Also in our situation the machine is only loading loose gravels from a stockpile; no hard digging.

BC Placer gold said: I also use weld on edges (half arrow). When I am feeding the wash plant a smooth, consistent feed rate is critical & bolts/nuts will interfere with feed when a small boulder gets hung up... Click to expand... What is half arrow?

Here's a small scrap I found. It's nice as it welds up to upper & bottom surface of bucket cutting edge. I also use it for side cutters on our excavators. It would lay just as shown in picture up to existing bucket edge. This example is mini-excavator/skid steer 'size'. There is a supplier local to us (Kamloops) that has all sizes; right up to large mining machines.

And a drawing…

BC Placer gold said: And a drawing… Click to expand... Nice product, I don't read swedish. I went to their website.

BC Placer gold said: And a drawing… Click to expand... Welding it on with ArcTec 223 or some other 7018 rod I assume. Decent solution to bolts sticking up and holding back slow feed at hopper. Simon C

Simon C said: Welding it on with ArcTec 223 or some other 7018 rod I assume. Decent solution to bolts sticking up and holding back slow feed at hopper. Simon C Click to expand... Yes, I have been using ArcTec 223 for a while now...The builder of our wash plant recommended them back in 2012 and have been using since then.

Willie B said: I prefer weld on cutting edges. I've had this machine over four years, haven't yet worn out an edge with hard use. View attachment 352800 I figure a fresh edge with grouser stock is not a big job. The bolts are always in the way. No big thing scooping gravel, but rocks are a problem. Click to expand... I see a bolt on edge.

Shimmy1 said: I can't believe I hadn't seen this madness before now. There is no way this would work for longer than a day or two on anything bigger than a 1-3 tonner. Without any sort of stretch on the bolts, the first sign of stress and they will stretch on their own, then the edge is loose. If you can't run a bolt-on edge, weld an edge on and be done. Click to expand... A good weld is just as strong or stronger than a nut but need to use the right filler metal.

BC Placer gold said: I also use weld on edges (half arrow). When I am feeding the wash plant a smooth, consistent feed rate is critical & bolts/nuts will interfere with feed when a small boulder gets hung up... Click to expand... Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Swebor sells in the USA.

Welder Dave said: A good weld is just as strong or stronger than a nut but need to use the right filler metal. Click to expand... I'm not disputing that fact. What I'm saying is when you tighten a nut on the bolt, you stretch the bolt, it provides clamping force to hold the edge tight. If you just weld the bolt, it's not providing any sort of clamping force. As soon as you put stress on the edge, it's going to stretch the bolt, and then it will be loose. Keep working it, it will keep moving, stretching, getting looser, pretty soon it fails. If you could torque the nuts, and weld the bolt without losing that stretch, it would theoretically work, but that is not possible. Someone please back me up on this.

The heat from welding could add tension when it shrinks on cooling. I think it could be a viable option if you don't want nuts sticking up. If you needed max. strength you'd probably have to weld the edge on if bolts would be an issue.

Shimmy1 said: I'm not disputing that fact. What I'm saying is when you tighten a nut on the bolt, you stretch the bolt, it provides clamping force to hold the edge tight. If you just weld the bolt, it's not providing any sort of clamping force. As soon as you put stress on the edge, it's going to stretch the bolt, and then it will be loose. Keep working it, it will keep moving, stretching, getting looser, pretty soon it fails. If you could torque the nuts, and weld the bolt without losing that stretch, it would theoretically work, but that is not possible. Someone please back me up on this. Click to expand... The only way I could be sure is try it. I found my 3' wide toothless bucket kept loosening the bolts. I used red locktite on them, still loosened. I torque, then weld the nut to the bolt, that works. The nuts & bolt sticking up even higher is a problem with big rocks. This is true on both ends of the tractor, loader, and hoe.

Willie B said: The only way I could be sure is try it. I found my 3' wide toothless bucket kept loosening the bolts. I used red locktite on them, still loosened. I torque, then weld the nut to the bolt, that works. The nuts & bolt sticking up even higher is a problem with big rocks. This is true on both ends of the tractor, loader, and hoe. Click to expand... Welding the torqued nut to the bolt should always work, unless the holes are fagged out. The main reasons for bolts working loose IMO is worn out holes, or crappy fasteners.

materthegreater said: Unfortunately it doesn't appear that Swebor sells in the USA. Click to expand... Perhaps you could find an equivalent?

I would never weld the nuts after tightening, or just weld the bolt. As soon as you work it and start stretching and getting debris behind the edge, it will bite you in the ass. When I bolt my cutting edges on, knowing that 90% of the time, the nuts have to be cut off, to flip it or change it, I smack the threads with a hammer. A cross threaded bolt, will never loosen up.

BC Placer gold said: Perhaps you could find an equivalent? Click to expand... Maybe I should take a business trip to Sweden

I'm retired, so sometime I spend more time on a project than it deserves. I countersunk the holes in the loader: Used the torch to anneal the hardened edge where the bolts will go, drilled and threaded: Then used flat head socket bolts: Ground the bottom of the bolts off flush. Smooth on the bottom, smooth on the top. One of the dumb farm-boy tricks I used is to liberally coat all the mating surfaces, and the threads with silicone sealer. Might act a little like removable loctite, but mainly to seal everything so it is not a rusted mess in 10 years. If the silicone is there, water is not.